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TOPIC: Receive audio splitches

Receive audio splitches 23 Nov 2021 18:53 #16

  • e72x
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Continuation of my previous post

Moving the mouse cursor while 5m logger sends tci cw macro gives the result of slowing down the speed of the cw signal...
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Receive audio splitches 24 Nov 2021 01:09 #17

  • danielwee
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Yes, that happens here as well. I think this is the result of the latency inherent in Windows (and any multitasking system).
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Receive audio splitches 24 Nov 2021 08:02 #18

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Hi,
Thanks for the info...
Windows throttling is turned off for me and I'll try when Mb1 is connected directly with straight cable to SUNSD>R2 DX
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Receive audio splitches 29 Nov 2021 22:53 #19

  • k5rhd
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Any ETA on this update yet?

Please and thanks,

/randy
73
K5RHD
/randy
Arvada, CO USA
DM79
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Receive audio splitches 30 Nov 2021 05:30 #20

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I have this week off and I have been playing around with the SunSDR2 Pro some more. The throttling on the Windows side gave me an idea.

On the Mac, go into System Preferences>Network. Highlight the Ethernet Interface that is connected to the switch or radio and click Advanced in the lower right corner. Click on the Hardware Tab. I changed the Configure setting to Manually, Speed to 1000baseT, (and this is the important part) full-duplex. I believe that the macOS default of 'full-duplex, flow control' is what was contributing to the scratchy/static-like sound that I have been experiencing. I have been operating for most of the day and for the most part the noise is virtually GONE! See screen shots below for steps:




k5rhd wrote:
I am running ESDR on a Mac with the same sound issue. I did move my mic/headset to the computer off of the radio and it helped a lot but it is still there occasionally. I am running enterprise grade network switch from Cisco and I have a dedicated NIC for the radio and I am running the onboard Ethernet of my Mac mini for Internet. I have switched NICs around just to see if there is a difference. My guess is that running three displays with an integrated GPU is pushing the system a lot despite the RAM and Processor I have. I will wait and see if the next release Roman spoke of will help some.

73
K5RHD
/randy
73
K5RHD
/randy
Arvada, CO USA
DM79
Last Edit: 30 Nov 2021 05:31 by k5rhd. Reason: typo
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Receive audio splitches 30 Nov 2021 07:36 #21

  • VK6NX
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@Randy - I very much doubt the problem root cause in yours case is in Mac settings. Looking at your screenshots I recon it is in unstructured LAN.

SunSDR-ESDR RTP traffic stream is a mixture of TCP and UDP, where UDP prevealed. Hence, if there is intention to create anything except dedicated LAN segment for SunSDR-ESDR pair, then it is required to dig a bit deeper into networking basics. Additionally when mixing SunSDR-ESDR LAN into home LAN, it is also very much recommended to use ASIC-based switches (obvious reason). Also it is recommended to use proven routers in the setup allowing minimal serialisation delay and configuration of source-destination-based SunSDR-ESDR RTP priority over other RTP streams in your home LAN.
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Receive audio splitches 30 Nov 2021 09:22 #22

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Hi,
This is not a network problem switches, routers. in my case ... I connected the MB1 directly to the straight cable with the SUNSDR2 DX and the crackling is distinctly heard when the headphones are connected to the front panel of the radio. Moving the mouse cursor quickly over an open EESDR3 window is the easiest way to detect a crunch in the headphones. The same happens if we use CW macro commands from 5M context by moving the mouse while sending macro slows down the typing of cw signals ... MB1 I7 6700T 16Gb Samsung EVO 9700 SSD

73,

Gordan,
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Receive audio splitches 30 Nov 2021 10:12 #23

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Gordan, what I was saying to Randy - specifically concerns his described situation. Certainly, what you are describing is completely different, and, actually, I think there are two problems, not one.

The problem with 5M macroses affecting CW speed is not new. I was fighting it approx 6 years ago under Win with SunSDR2 (non-Pro) and finally gave up.
Since then I am using my own macro-generator and have no macro issues under SS2 and DX.

Moving cursor with mouse in ESDR3 causing cracklings - sounds like separate issue. I believe there were already few bug reports about cracklings under ESDR3 with earlier alphas, and I am not sure if developers already fixed them. I would say - make a video recording of the issue and submit the bug report in github tracker.

Add-on: I am not MB1 user (it is great device but it does not meet my conditions). I have tested the friend on mine MB1 very few times and my very personal and strictly IMHO (which I am not trying to promote too much to avoid unnecessary flame) - MB1 should run under Lunux, not Windows.
Last Edit: 30 Nov 2021 10:22 by VK6NX.
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Receive audio splitches 30 Nov 2021 11:12 #24

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VK6NX wrote:
Gordan, what I was saying to Randy - specifically concerns his described situation. Certainly, what you are describing is completely different, and, actually, I think there are two problems, not one.

The problem with 5M macroses affecting CW speed is not new. I was fighting it approx 6 years ago under Win with SunSDR2 (non-Pro) and finally gave up.
Since then I am using my own macro-generator and have no macro issues under SS2 and DX.

Moving cursor with mouse in ESDR3 causing cracklings - sounds like separate issue. I believe there were already few bug reports about cracklings under ESDR3 with earlier alphas, and I am not sure if developers already fixed them. I would say - make a video recording of the issue and submit the bug report in github tracker.

Add-on: I am not MB1 user (it is great device but it does not meet my conditions). I have tested the friend on mine MB1 very few times and my very personal and strictly IMHO (which I am not trying to promote too much to avoid unnecessary flame) - MB1 should run under Lunux, not Windows.

Thanks for the useful information ...
I will try to upgrade MB1 with I7 7700T processor and see if anything will improve the performance ...

73,

Gordan
Last Edit: 30 Nov 2021 11:13 by e72x.
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Receive audio splitches 30 Nov 2021 15:36 #25

  • k5rhd
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Gordon,

I agree that the results of changing those settings is anecdotal and should not have an impact. But, I know this: I made a change to the network config on my machine and the noise stopped. I rebooted my Mac after making the change which may have also improved things a bit. The way I understand Flow Control, it is the process of managing the rate of data transmission between two nodes to prevent a fast sender from overwhelming a slow receiver and it seemed logical that it may help. I am almost 24 hours out from my reboot and I am surfing the internet, checking email and QSY'ing around waiting for my 2M VHF SSB net to start and I am not hearing the noise. Could just be a coincidence I guess but I am happy that the noise is gone. For me, the noise is prevalent enough for me to consider selling the radio if something is not improved in software

I am running everything through this Cisco Meraki Go Switch It is certainly better than consumer grade stuff out there. I would give it a "pro-sumer' rating. Better than consumer and not 100% professional and it is managed.

For what it is worth, I have a Windows PC and I tried switching the Mac out and the PC was not much better and I could not hear any significant difference from the Mac-even with the registry modification. I am going to move the Internet connection to the Thunderbolt ethernet dongle and dedicate onboard NIC on the Mac with the new settings just to see what happens. While writing this email, I checked into the two nets and was tuning around-still quiet and very much improved. I am using the Mic PC for audio input/output.

I will await a new software release that was mentioned earlier in this thread a while longer.

73

VK6NX wrote:
@Randy - I very much doubt the problem root cause in yours case is in Mac settings. Looking at your screenshots I recon it is in unstructured LAN.

SunSDR-ESDR RTP traffic stream is a mixture of TCP and UDP, where UDP prevealed. Hence, if there is intention to create anything except dedicated LAN segment for SunSDR-ESDR pair, then it is required to dig a bit deeper into networking basics. Additionally when mixing SunSDR-ESDR LAN into home LAN, it is also very much recommended to use ASIC-based switches (obvious reason). Also it is recommended to use proven routers in the setup allowing minimal serialisation delay and configuration of source-destination-based SunSDR-ESDR RTP priority over other RTP streams in your home LAN.
73
K5RHD
/randy
Arvada, CO USA
DM79
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Receive audio splitches 01 Dec 2021 00:34 #26

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Randy, let me be very clear: CW crackling problem does exist in current ESDR3 alpha line, nobody is questioning that. Though, the root causes of the crackling - at this point of time - appears to be OS-dependent (for Win and Mac) and was not reported once for Linux. As far as we know now (from experiments and getting information from EE), there is a believe that the root cause might be related to networking prioritisation under Win and Mac.

k5rhd wrote:
running everything through this Meraki Go
:sorry: I would rate this above is the root cause of crackling in your case with 95% probability. Meraki Go line is not even close to 10% of professional. The fact that Cisco (known for good documentation) is shy to publish full datasheet for Go product line - should be saying everything. Go is in the same segment with Netgear/3Com/TP-link/Ubiquty Home switches with $10-25(per port) price for "new" device.

If you are after capable Cisco's switches for your situation, you better have used 29xx-series or even 37xx-series (for 2-3 times less price compare to Meraki Go). Even EOL, 29xx/37xx will do 100 times better job; and there is no magic - just because both above series are ASIC-based and natively (via SRND4) and programmably do support of traffic prioritisation.

In case you are intending to use Meraki Go, it should run exclusively your HAM LAN, connecting and serving only SunSDR, ESDR PC and other HAM-related devices. No mail, no Netflix, no other fancy home traffic through that switch - for Home LAN you should get another switch.

If you are using Mac with thinder-LAN dongle - this port shlould be dedicated to SunSDR traffic. And all home LAN + internet traffic should be diverted on your Mac via WiFi or second thinder-LAN port; additionally SunSDR thinder-LAN should be placed on top of connections, giving it highest priority. However, even with described type proven setup, you may still have CW cracklings under ESDR3 alpha - because there is still a bug. And we are waiting EE's dev team to fix it :wall: .

BTW, what you believe is a "fix" by changing described network settings - is just a coincident result (and I am happy you understand yourself that the changes are appearing anecdotal). Apple, fortunately, did not manage yet to damage networking in macOS to the level, when manual triggering is required (as it is under Win). In 99.99% cases you can rely on "auto" network settings in Mac and the only thing you may need to do under certain conditions - is to change port priority. What you have done - simply triggered particular (and temporary) negotiation on L2 (which, BTW, industry-rated switch does already automatically for 20 years with no need of manual interaction); and the settings you have changed will be ignored and reset by switch (on switch side) after reboot or certain traffic.
Last Edit: 01 Dec 2021 00:42 by VK6NX.
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Receive audio splitches 01 Dec 2021 15:57 #27

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Hi,

First of all, I have no idea about any CW noise. I do not operate CW and I am not using any of the Alpha code-I know better. :D I am talking about the static that used to happen while performing OTHER functions on the computer like: moving the mouse, changing focus between screens, doing anything that involves network traffic increases, etc.locally on the Mac-not my LAN. It sounds like a dirty potentiometer when you turn one. You know, the kind that had to be cleaned out with de-OXit?

And without any reboots and an uptime of over two days, after changing my network settings and still running the SundSDR2 Pro through the onboard Ethernet of my Mac mini, the noise I have been suffering from is gone. Anecdotal, yes. Did it work even though it shouldn't? So far, so good!

I appreciate you talking down to me. :x I have access to a lot surplus big iron switches at work and I was going to borrow one if this change does not continue to resolve the issue. I just really do not want the extra noise in the shack those create. IIRC correctly, the fans are loud! But yeah we have a storage room full of 2xxx and 3xxx switches collecting dust.

What bugs me is that other SDR companies have no issues like this. It is annoying and I would love a proper resolution via code. The SunSDR2, the UI, the UX are better than anything else I have used but for this one issue that I have. And I love that I can chose between three OS's to run my setup. The fact that EE acknowledges that there is more than just Windows out there is AWESOME. My OS of choice happens to be macOS but I would use Linux if I have 100% certainty that I would not have the issue there. I have a Lenovo Think Server with a pair of NICs, 64GB of ram, and a 750 TI GPU that is up to that task.


BTW, what you believe is a "fix" by changing described network settings - is just a coincident result (and I am happy you understand yourself that the changes are appearing anecdotal). Apple, fortunately, did not manage yet to damage networking in macOS to the level, when manual triggering is required (as it is under Win). In 99.99% cases you can rely on "auto" network settings in Mac and the only thing you may need to do under certain conditions - is to change port priority. What you have done - simply triggered particular (and temporary) negotiation on L2 (which, BTW, industry-rated switch does already automatically for 20 years with no need of manual interaction); and the settings you have changed will be ignored and reset by switch (on switch side) after reboot or certain traffic.

If you are using Mac with thinder-LAN dongle - this port shlould be dedicated to SunSDR traffic. And all home LAN + internet traffic should be diverted on your Mac via WiFi or second thinder-LAN port; additionally SunSDR thinder-LAN should be placed on top of connections, giving it highest priority. However, even with described type proven setup, you may still have CW cracklings under ESDR3 alpha - because there is still a bug. And we are waiting EE's dev team to fix it
73
K5RHD
/randy
Arvada, CO USA
DM79
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Receive audio splitches 01 Dec 2021 16:06 #28

  • N8SDR
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k5rhd wrote:
Hi,

First of all, I have no idea about any CW noise. I do not operate CW and I am not using any of the Alpha code-I know better. :D I am talking about the static that used to happen while performing OTHER functions on the computer like: moving the mouse, changing focus between screens, doing anything that involves network traffic increases, etc.locally on the Mac-not my LAN. It sounds like a dirty potentiometer when you turn one. You know, the kind that had to be cleaned out with de-OXit?

And without any reboots and an uptime of over two days, after changing my network settings and still running the SundSDR2 Pro through the onboard Ethernet of my Mac mini, the noise I have been suffering from is gone. Anecdotal, yes. Did it work even though it shouldn't? So far, so good!

I appreciate you talking down to me. :x I have access to a lot surplus big iron switches at work and I was going to borrow one if this change does not continue to resolve the issue. I just really do not want the extra noise in the shack those create. IIRC correctly, the fans are loud! But yeah we have a storage room full of 2xxx and 3xxx switches collecting dust.

What bugs me is that other SDR companies have no issues like this. It is annoying and I would love a proper resolution via code. The SunSDR2, the UI, the UX are better than anything else I have used but for this one issue that I have. And I love that I can chose between three OS's to run my setup. The fact that EE acknowledges that there is more than just Windows out there is AWESOME. My OS of choice happens to be macOS but I would use Linux if I have 100% certainty that I would not have the issue there. I have a Lenovo Think Server with a pair of NICs, 64GB of ram, and a 750 TI GPU that is up to that task.


BTW, what you believe is a "fix" by changing described network settings - is just a coincident result (and I am happy you understand yourself that the changes are appearing anecdotal). Apple, fortunately, did not manage yet to damage networking in macOS to the level, when manual triggering is required (as it is under Win). In 99.99% cases you can rely on "auto" network settings in Mac and the only thing you may need to do under certain conditions - is to change port priority. What you have done - simply triggered particular (and temporary) negotiation on L2 (which, BTW, industry-rated switch does already automatically for 20 years with no need of manual interaction); and the settings you have changed will be ignored and reset by switch (on switch side) after reboot or certain traffic.

If you are using Mac with thinder-LAN dongle - this port shlould be dedicated to SunSDR traffic. And all home LAN + internet traffic should be diverted on your Mac via WiFi or second thinder-LAN port; additionally SunSDR thinder-LAN should be placed on top of connections, giving it highest priority. However, even with described type proven setup, you may still have CW cracklings under ESDR3 alpha - because there is still a bug. And we are waiting EE's dev team to fix it

Macs are known for having issues between programs and switch back, when you open focus on another program and switch between them, they can sometimes produce the sound you described and also have audio dropouts between the applications as well
So Good deal on what you have done and results thus far.
73 Rick
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Receive audio splitches 01 Dec 2021 18:03 #29

  • ON4ASG
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Hi, all of you.
I don’t have a problem when running expertSDR2 update11, neither with expertSDR3 0.10.0. If running alone!
Only when running SDR console client on a second laptop, connected over network to a third boxpc running sdrconsole server audio splitches occur.
Headphones connected directly @ front connector of SunSDR2pro.
Using 2 netgear GB switches.

Sdrconsole client@PC1+ Expertsdr@PC2+netgearswitch‐‐
‐---netgearswitch+sunsdr2pro+boxpcsdrconsoleserver@PC3

Grts,

Hans
ON4ASG
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Receive audio splitches 01 Dec 2021 22:31 #30

  • Tom_G0JSV
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Referring back the original post by Bob, 5B4AGN I have also noticed these audio glitches using both v2 and v3 versions of the software.

Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-7567U CPU @ 3.50GHz 3.50 GHz
16.0 GB (15.9 GB usable)
Windows 10 Pro - 20H2

I run 2 subnets. 192.168.1 & 192.168.2.

.2 (Ethernet 1GB) is reserved for radios.

.1 (Wireless and used for email/printing) is usually disabled.

But I too have noticed that if I start another program on the PC running ExpertSDR, i.e. Chrome or Edge, ExpertSDR is seriously degraded with audio splitches/glitches.


Tom.
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