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TOPIC: operation "Pink noise" ESDR3 v 0.10.0

operation "Pink noise" ESDR3 v 0.10.0 02 Dec 2021 12:25 #1

  • R3IIN
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operation "Pink noise" ESDR3 v 0.10.0
Last Edit: 02 Dec 2021 12:29 by R3IIN.
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operation "Pink noise" ESDR3 v 0.10.0 03 Dec 2021 17:37 #2

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Can we have this also in English version.
Last Edit: 03 Dec 2021 17:37 by Bigboy.
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operation "Pink noise" ESDR3 v 0.10.0 03 Dec 2021 18:40 #3

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Thanks! I'll try to explain! I have an Adobe Aidution 1.5 program , the output of the program I am feeding the Mic PC ESDR3 input by VAC (at the same time, the VAC gain should be 0 dB, this is set in the WIN 10 settings, the sound device mode (playback- recording) the Mic gain of the Pc input should also be 0dB all processing modules must be turned off !!! From here we can see that the "yellow line" of the analyzer will not coincide with the inclined "pink noise" along which we should adjust the microphone sound! Therefore, it is necessary to manually adjust the lifting of the "yellow line", which I wrote to Roman about!!! Promised to fix it !!!there are still problems related to the operation of the microphone meter indicator, feed the ESDR3 single tone generator 1000 Hz (0 dB input level) to the PC microphone input of the ESDR3 sound program! The gain of the PC microphone set to 0 dB )
ESDR3 0.10.0.Alpha Build 03112021
there is improper indicator Mic meter lower aisles
the input of the transmitter ( input MIC PC ) was filed generator 1000 Hz with an input level of 0 dB , the gain control
for microphone input is set to 0 dB on the gain and input level is attenuated with step minus 5 dB to the input of the transmitter , in this case we compared the indications of levels at the output of the generator and the input level of the transmitter
input level 0 dB 0 dB microphone shows
enter minus 5 dB MIC shows minus 2.5 dB
input minus 10 dB, the microphone shows minus 5 dB
enter minus 15 the microphone level, indicates a negative minus dB 7.5 dB
input -20 dB shows the signal level minus 10 dB
enter minus 25 dB microphone shows minus 12 dB
input-30dB shows the microphone level minus 15 dB
enter minus 35 dB shows the microphone level minus 17dB
github.com/ExpertSDR3/ExpertSDR3-BUG-TRACKER/issues/35
you need to write a novel ! I left a request to the programmer!! Please forgive me for my bad English !
Last Edit: 03 Dec 2021 19:07 by R3IIN.
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operation "Pink noise" ESDR3 v 0.10.0 03 Dec 2021 19:07 #4

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Are the dB indications power- or voltage-related?
Could this explain the differences?

Best regards,
Eberhard, DK8JV
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operation "Pink noise" ESDR3 v 0.10.0 03 Dec 2021 19:14 #5

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Thanks ! since this is an input signal level indicator, it should correctly show information about the "INPUT SIGNAL LEVEL" after all, we know that the 0dB level is a level equal to 0.775v
after all, with an input signal of 0dB, we see that the indicator indicates correctly , and when the generator is weakened in increments of 5 dB, the indicator gives incorrect information!!!
Last Edit: 03 Dec 2021 19:22 by R3IIN.
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operation "Pink noise" ESDR3 v 0.10.0 03 Dec 2021 19:34 #6

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I'm sorry, Igor,
I didn't read what you wrote in the Github: "THE READINGS ON THE PAN ADAPTER COMPLETELY COINCIDE WITH THE OUTPUT LEVEL OF THE GENERATOR SUPPLIED TO THE INPUT OF THE TRANSMITTER",
So it really looks that the indicated different values not correct.

Best regards,
Eberhard, DK8JV
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operation "Pink noise" ESDR3 v 0.10.0 03 Dec 2021 19:51 #7

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With a different pan scale of the adapter, you can see that it also shows wrong!!! I made a scale of one cell 5 dB. I pointed the marker , you can see what the pan adapter shows in the transmitter mode !!! The testimony is not correct !!! Please note I reduced the input level by minus 5 dB!!
Last Edit: 03 Dec 2021 19:53 by R3IIN.
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operation "Pink noise" ESDR3 v 0.10.0 03 Dec 2021 20:42 #8

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And this also explains

1) Why in V3 the Mic metering is incorrect and the value cannot be set correctly using the Mic slider. you can never reach O or it's really hard and you must drive the SNOT of the gain slider to approach 0dB

2) why when attempting to reach the proper gain shown on the Mic meter why in the current releases there is MORE IMD produced then in V2 - because the audio gain structure is mis represented and if you come close to 0dB you're actually over driving the input-

For me I t seems a level on the meter showing around -10 /-8 dB produces a fairly clean signal like it was in v2, and I see close to the same power output on peaks at that point, and yes, I do not use any processing in V3 it is all outboard so that level has remained constant between the V2 and V3 versions

I had already opened the ticket in GitHub about the v3 versions producing more IMD and reading this posts and values I now understand why.
This of course refers to Voice Modulated modes-

Thank you, Igor, for your testing and findings
73 Rick
Last Edit: 03 Dec 2021 20:45 by N8SDR.
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operation "Pink noise" ESDR3 v 0.10.0 03 Dec 2021 20:50 #9

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N8SDR wrote:
And this also explains

1) Why in V3 the Mic metering is incorrect and the value cannot be set correctly using the Mic slider. you can never reach O or it's really hard and you must drive the SNOT of the gain slider to approach 0dB

2) why when attempting to reach the proper gain shown on the Mic meter why in the current releases there is MORE IMD produced then in V2 - because the audio gain structure is mis represented and if you come close to 0dB you're actually over driving the input-

For me I t seems a level on the meter showing around -10 /-8 dB produces a fairly clean signal like it was in v2, and I see close to the same power output on peaks at that point, and yes, I do not use any processing in V3 it is all outboard so that level has remained constant between the V2 and V3 versions

I had already opened the ticket in GitHub about the v3 versions producing more IMD and reading this posts and values I now understand why.
This of course refers to Voice Modulated modes-

Thank you, Igor, for your testing and findings
Rick ! That 's exactly why I 'm writing to the company guys , calibrate all levels , especially the Mic meter indicator !!! calibrate the Boost indicator in the "Proc" module!!! Guys!! Calibrate the pan adapter in transfer mode! So far, they have only promised!!! IS it really impossible to calibrate everything at once, set it up!? After all, this is done once!!! :evil: :evil: :evil:
Last Edit: 03 Dec 2021 21:30 by R3IIN.
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operation "Pink noise" ESDR3 v 0.10.0 03 Dec 2021 22:30 #10

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It seems that calibration - pink noise and many others, somehow became an issue at some point of SW development. Pink noise calibration, panorama calibration, SWR calibration, output power calibration, perhaps some more.

I believe there are two key point to this:
1. Yes, it is obvious, crucial and preferred to have factory calibration processes established and controlled for every new device
2. And - this is crucial too - we need mechanism for calibration to be performed by user. This is concerning all devices at user hands. The procedures need to be well documented with clear indication of recommended/necessary tools and step-by-step process.
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operation "Pink noise" ESDR3 v 0.10.0 03 Dec 2021 23:41 #11

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Bottom line, What we need is accurate level meters for each module/stage in the proc menu.
OdB of signal at the mic input should show 0dB on meters it also needs to be liner and read correct at lower levels as well. Metering for each stage of processing will help user keep gain level correct and keep from over or under driving the P.A in the radio.

proc.png



For example in the “Compressor” module you need input, gain reduction & output level meters so you can see how much compression and output level.
Transceiver: MB1 Prime 2021
HF Amplifier: Ameritron AL-1200
HF Antennas:10-80 Vertical, 10-80 Fan Dipole
VHF Antenna: Commet GP-9
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operation "Pink noise" ESDR3 v 0.10.0 04 Dec 2021 06:01 #12

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John! I agree with you completely ! Regarding the "Proc" module, too. Back in the ESDR 2 version of the program, I wrote to Roman, made suggestions to make an indication of the level control of each sound module, including the compressor! Question on the indications of the "Mic meret" level
Roman's answer was this....A bunch of "twirlers" and "turntables", i.e. manual control, is something that most users just don't need, everyone needs reasonable simplicity, that's why a special algorithm has been created.
Last Edit: 04 Dec 2021 06:05 by R3IIN.
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operation "Pink noise" ESDR3 v 0.10.0 04 Dec 2021 06:14 #13

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DEL
Last Edit: 04 Dec 2021 06:20 by R3IIN.
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operation "Pink noise" ESDR3 v 0.10.0 04 Dec 2021 06:17 #14

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It seems that calibration - pink noise and many others, somehow became an issue at some point of SW development. Pink noise calibration, panorama calibration, SWR calibration, output power calibration, perhaps some more.

I believe there are two key point to this:
1. Yes, it is obvious, crucial and preferred to have factory calibration processes established and controlled for every new device
2. And - this is crucial too - we need mechanism for calibration to be performed by user. This is concerning all devices at user hands. The procedures need to be well documented with clear indication of recommended/necessary tools and step-by-step process.
The methodology for checking the level indicators is as follows
1 In the "PROC" tab, the sound modules must be turned off!!!
2 Set the GAIN CONTROL of the PC MICROPHONE to 0 dB (DO NOT TOUCH THIS ENGINE ANYMORE!!!
3 We supply a generator with a 0 dB level and a source output regulator from the source , we achieve the MIC METER indicator readings to the 0dB level , WE DO NOT TOUCH THIS ENGINE ANYMORE !!
4 We feed the generator with the desired attenuation step (WITHOUT touching the MIC PC, MIC1, MIC2 gain engine) and monitor the Mic meter readings, the Boost indicator. readings on the PANADAPTOR at the same tone of the generator, these indicators should show the same values! !
CHECKING THE PREDICTIONS FOR THE MIC1 and MIC2 INPUTS IS similar!!!
Last Edit: 04 Dec 2021 06:19 by R3IIN.
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operation "Pink noise" ESDR3 v 0.10.0 04 Dec 2021 06:53 #15

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I admit that it is possible to use "Mic meter" to monitor each module of the "PROC", but I think this indicator is installed at the input of the modulator, after the internal AGC of the transmitter, the AGC of the transmitter works after 0dB! And we won't see which processing module has a level higher than 0dB!! But today the Mic meter indicator gives us incorrect information about the input level, namely, it does not work linearly on the lower aisles!!!
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