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This category was created to discuss various questions and topics regarding ExpertSDR2 operation.
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TOPIC: AGC Slope and Threshold make the difference - Please get them back in EESDR

AGC Slope and Threshold make the difference - Please get them back in EESDR 23 Jan 2021 14:17 #1

  • iw7dmh
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I did another comparison test between 1.2 and 1.3 release of EESDR.
I find the 1.2 more pleasant to listen because I can set the Slope and Threshold level the more I like.
Maybe I am missing something with the 1.3 but I can't have the same audio response.
What do you think about? And what could be the drawback to have them back again in next EESDR releases?

Last Edit: 23 Jan 2021 14:18 by iw7dmh.
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AGC Slope and Threshold make the difference - Please get them back in EESDR 24 Jan 2021 00:01 #2

  • kc2rgw
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I’ve not run the old release but just want to say that fully adjustable AGC is one of the most major advantages to running an SDR. I saw the v3 teaser and was very disappointed to hear that there will only be a few pre-set AGC configurations. Have a few for those less inclined but leave the access to fully customize AGC params for people who will use it.
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AGC Slope and Threshold make the difference - Please get them back in EESDR 24 Jan 2021 07:55 #3

  • g0cgl
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  • Erik EI4KF / G0CGL
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I said the same as Enzo on the release of 1.3 but my comments fell on stoney ground. The controls Enzo refers to, especially Threshold, allow AGC to action on signals and not band noise. EE response is that the loss of that control is irrelevant and is taken care of by the RF gain control (which they are going to rename as AGC level in ESDR3).

They are not the same thing, there are many reputable individuals and organisations that separate them out - Flex Radio and Sherwood Laboratories for example. But I think we are not going to get a well optimized receiver in ESDR3 because, according to the latest EE video on the subject, AGC is going to be further reduced in configurability with only FAST and SLOW allowed with no MID and, it appears from the video, no USER settings and certainly no return to the ability to tune AGC and response as found in ESDR2 1.2.

For those who either work weak signal CW DXing, especially on higher noise level bands, or those who wish to take advantage of the AGC Compensation feature of JTDX for help in maximising weak FT8 decodes, we are I think likely to feel disappointed. Time will tell though.

The crunch for me was when an Irish station worked a XX9 DXpedition on 160m CW that I could not hear even though I have an excellent receive antenna. I changed, in desperation, from 1.3 to 1.2, same settings except I set AGC Threshold and Slope, and there he was with just enough signal to work him. Back to 1.3 and gone again. It is all in the software, the Expert Electronics hardware is excellent.
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AGC Slope and Threshold make the difference - Please get them back in EESDR 24 Jan 2021 08:07 #4

  • M0CVX
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I'm a new Sunsdr2 DX user. Hoping to do some if my 2m activities on the Sun. However Meteor Scatter modes like FSK441 and MSK144 plus weak signal modes like JT65 are usually best operated with AGC OFF. Whilst FT8 can be done using AGC, I'm really not so sure that the MS and EME modes will fare so well.
So I hope EE will address this continuing need for AGC flexibility in Version 3.
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AGC Slope and Threshold make the difference - Please get them back in EESDR 24 Jan 2021 10:47 #5

  • iw7dmh
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g0cgl wrote:
I said the same as Enzo on the release of 1.3 but my comments fell on stoney ground. The controls Enzo refers to, especially Threshold, allow AGC to action on signals and not band noise. EE response is that the loss of that control is irrelevant and is taken care of by the RF gain control (which they are going to rename as AGC level in ESDR3).

They are not the same thing, there are many reputable individuals and organisations that separate them out - Flex Radio and Sherwood Laboratories for example. But I think we are not going to get a well optimized receiver in ESDR3 because, according to the latest EE video on the subject, AGC is going to be further reduced in configurability with only FAST and SLOW allowed with no MID and, it appears from the video, no USER settings and certainly no return to the ability to tune AGC and response as found in ESDR2 1.2.

For those who either work weak signal CW DXing, especially on higher noise level bands, or those who wish to take advantage of the AGC Compensation feature of JTDX for help in maximising weak FT8 decodes, we are I think likely to feel disappointed. Time will tell though.

The crunch for me was when an Irish station worked a XX9 DXpedition on 160m CW that I could not hear even though I have an excellent receive antenna. I changed, in desperation, from 1.3 to 1.2, same settings except I set AGC Threshold and Slope, and there he was with just enough signal to work him. Back to 1.3 and gone again. It is all in the software, the Expert Electronics hardware is excellent.

Hi Erik, thank you very much for your comment.
I hope they are right and that the release 3 will address this issue. Anyway still remains the question about the drawbacks in leaving there the whole AGC settings.
While we are here I would like to ask a question strictly related to the RX of SunSDR Rigs and the difference between the Flexradio panadpter.
At one point, in the manual, talking about the weak signals operations, they say that zooming the panadapter in it can lower the noise floor (see the picture below). The tangible effect of this operation is that you can see the signal before you can ear it.
I experienced this nice feature with the VK0EK, seeing their signal before can listen to them, then taking them on 17m and 15m.
Now I am wondering if the EESDR works in the same way or its response is indipendent from the zoom ratio.

73' Enzo
iw7dmh
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AGC Slope and Threshold make the difference - Please get them back in EESDR 24 Jan 2021 11:49 #6

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Hi Enzo,

I think not. I might be wrong but I cannot achieve a reduction in the noise floor by that method and there is no such mention of this ability in the EE documentation. Still, let's see if there are more replies to your question and if someone knows any different.

73 de Erik.
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AGC Slope and Threshold make the difference - Please get them back in EESDR 31 Jan 2021 17:07 #7

  • W8FB
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I switched from a Flex 6600 to a SunSDR2-DX and the only thing I miss is how well the Flex AGC-T works.
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AGC Slope and Threshold make the difference - Please get them back in EESDR 31 Jan 2021 23:32 #8

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I also came from a 6400 flex and find that the 2DX actually does a better job than the Flex did, on AGC

I am curious what your other settings are as far a sample rates buffers etc. as that will all come into play

I have everything as high as it will go, the software so so much more efficient with EESDR then the SmartSDR even having everything set high still results in a MUCH lower CPU usage
Please do not email me and ask for help I no longer will be part of this, If I could delete /remove my profile I would do so.
Last Edit: 31 Jan 2021 23:32 by N8SDR.
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AGC Slope and Threshold make the difference - Please get them back in EESDR 01 Feb 2021 02:15 #9

  • W8FB
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Hi Rick,
It sounds like the EESDR AGC is setup the way you like it and not far from how I like it too, but I still prefer how the Flex SmartSDR AGC-T behaves. I wouldn’t say one works better than the other, it’s just a matter of preference.
It’s not a deal breaker for me, but I would like to be able to control the AGC threshold, knee and slope to fine tune it to the way I like it.

73,
Bob, W8FB
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AGC Slope and Threshold make the difference - Please get them back in EESDR 02 Feb 2021 00:40 #10

  • Dexter
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Due to the glacial speed Flex was making on improving Version 3 software, I sold my Flex.
And I sold my IC7300 & 7610 because they did not incorporate AGCT in their architecture.
So I was seriously considering the Sun SDR2Dx until I read this thread.
Flex did AGCT very well & I expected Sun to do the same.
I'll wait to try the DX when & if AGCT is reincorporated and has a control/adjustment that is prominently displayed on the main control window.

-Bob W8RMV
-Bob
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AGC Slope and Threshold make the difference - Please get them back in EESDR 25 Mar 2021 17:55 #11

  • txSDR9er
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Why is Expert so silent on this issue that many feel so passionate about? I too think they could hit a home run with SunSDR 3 if they make AGC user customizable (at least similar AGC-T like Flex)
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AGC Slope and Threshold make the difference - Please get them back in EESDR 25 Mar 2021 19:09 #12

  • N8SDR
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Eric and Enzo

As you two I am mare familiar wish on the forum, no disrespect for the others at all, but know that you both watch the release/updates and have more contact with EE,

In the new V3 video earlier this month did Vasilly not mention that there would possibly be 2 versions, One a basic version for the more standard everyday user, one one he mentioned I think the word "Pro" which would have more controls features adjustments for those of use who like to really get down in the software - He did say that version maybe a slight charge as that was still up in the air and under discussion?

I'll hold out , I really feel EE wants to make those feature available m, but at the same time they want to make the software easy to use for the basic user. If a so called "Pro" version that has the abilities for more adjustments etc. Then I have no ill feeling to pay a small amount for those features that offer me more control and adjustments to Suite my individual needs.
In the link below he mentions the pro version a couple times one at around 43:14

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Last Edit: 25 Mar 2021 19:15 by N8SDR.
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AGC Slope and Threshold make the difference - Please get them back in EESDR 26 Mar 2021 07:54 #13

  • g0cgl
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Hi Rick, I see Roman posted a 'thank you' so I think, hope, you are right. This wasn't the last word as written, and I informed txSDR9er of that in a separate post he made, but maybe there has been a re-think since in response to user pleas to optimize the rx. That would be excellent, not just from a technical point of view, but would leave Flex behind in terms of providing positive results to user feedback. We shall see...
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AGC Slope and Threshold make the difference - Please get them back in EESDR 26 Mar 2021 08:00 #14

  • Rome
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Hi, everyone.
Indeed, we'll get back to this discussion after the ExpertSDR3 will have the same functionality as ExpertSDR2 (plus some new features obviously).
We have many plans for ExpertSDR3 and judging by the rate of ESDR3 development it won't be long. The first beta will already have way more advanced remote control capability than we had before.
It took us about 8-9 months to create what you'll see in about 2-3 weeks. And ExpertSDR2 has been developed since 2011. You'll be able to compare everything on your own)
Роман, Roman
Expert Electronics
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AGC Slope and Threshold make the difference - Please get them back in EESDR 26 Mar 2021 08:36 #15

  • R3IIN
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Roman, why do you need to reduce the functionality of ESDR3 ? Was it really impossible to move the functions of the ESDR2 program to the ESDR3 program without touching anything, add and improve some functions ! ESDR3 reduced the AGC function in the receiver , in the transmitter reduced the number of bands in the parametric equalizer not only do you use a ready-made plugin in the new version, you have also removed the output signal level from this equalizer !!! www.instagram.com/p/CGSONzxDxmg/?igshid=u804r1tic2oc
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Last Edit: 26 Mar 2021 08:49 by R3IIN.
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